A Discussion With Jerry E. Smith

Editors note: This is part of a special series of Raiders News Network interviews focusing on the 61st Anniversary of the 1947 Roswell, New Mexico UFO Incident. RNN is joined by Jerry E. Smith, author of: WEATHER WARFARE: The Military's Plan To Draft Mother Nature, HAARP: The Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy and co-author with George Piccard of SECRETS OF THE HOLY LANCE: The Spear of Destiny in History & Legend


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RNN: Jerry, thank you for joining me for the Road to Roswell 2008 Series. You've done research with George Piccard, author of LIQUID CONSPIRACY: JFK, LSD, the CIA, Area 51, and UFOs, plus you've gone beyond the "Area 51" type research to actually set the bar on the subject of HAARP, Weather manipulation etc. As we get started, tell me how one might connect the standard UFO-study model with your other areas of expertise?

SMITH: The connecting thread is a belief that the government is lying to us. In standard UFOlogy the general perception is that the government is lying to us about something, although there is some disagreement as to what it is lying about – aliens, underground bases, possession of alien craft or technology, etc. One cannot investigate UFOs for more than ten minutes without hitting this. My interest in UFOs (I was the Executive Director of the National UFO Museum in Reno, Nevada in the early 1990s) came from this. Since the Vietnam War I have believed that the government is lying to us about a great number of things – indeed, just about everything!

RNN: In simplest terms, for people new to the subject, what is HAARP?

SMITH: HAARP is the High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program. It is the largest and most powerful Department of Defense facility of its kind in the world -- just what kind of facility it is – civilian or military and what, if anything, it can do – is the subject of heated debate.

HAARP is a field on antennas on the ground in Southeastern Alaska, so linked together as to work as one giant antenna. It is today the world’s largest radio broadcasting station with an effective radiated power of 3.6 million watts (72,000 times more powerful than the largest legal AM radio station is the US). But it is not designed to broadcast for human ears. It uses a unique patented ability to focus the energy coming out of the field to inject that energy into a spot (about 12 miles across by about 2 1/2 miles deep) at the very top of the atmosphere in a region called the ionosphere.

Injecting all that energy into that "spot" causes the thin air at the top of the atmosphere to heat up by several thousand degrees until the molecules literally explode, giving off a packet of energy including a scream of radio waves in the ELF (extremely low frequency) range. Because of the great length of these waves they circumnavigate the globe bathing the earth in the HAARP signal. ELF passes through people and penetrate deep into the ocean and deep underground. The US Navy has used HAARP for the last 15 years, or so, to communicate with deeply submerged submarines.

Some researchers think HAARP is a prototype for a "Star Wars" weapons system… it may be an over-the-horizon type radar… or it may exist to destroy incoming ICBMs… or perhaps to fry out the electronics of enemy spy satellites… or it might be used to disrupt enemy radio communications… Researchers think it might be intended to do these things because those abilities are all described in the original patents that the HAARP antenna array is based on. The folks running HAARP deny any connection between HAARP and those patents, however. This, naturally, has opened them up to charges of cover-up and conspiracy. It's not the only thing they seem to be lying about, either.

Once one gets the idea that the government (or civilian scientists working under government contract) is lying about something, the sky is pretty much the limit in speculations about what it is they are lying about. And with HAARP the sky is just the beginning.

RNN: What are your concerns about HAARP?

SMITH: When I read that HAARP was about to bathe the world in ELF I got real concerned. As I relate in my HAARP book it is well documented that several of the world's governments have been pursuing mind control technologies for nearly a hundred years I've been studying it since 1976 when I learned of the CIA mind control program called MK Ultra that had it origins under the OSS during WWII. ELF is the same frequency range that the human brain works in. My first thought was that the worst possible scenario would be for HAARP to be exactly what they say it is – for there are no biologists or psychologists involved. HAARP could accidentally induce mental dysfunction across a wide swath of the globe without the scientists there having a clue they were doing it. Almost as bad, if there were a secret or "black ops" side to the project, HAARP might be fine-tuned to be the ultimate mind control device.

Dr. Nick Begich and Jean Manning wrote the first book on HAARP, "Angels Don't Play This HAARP," in which they touched on this and my other major concern, weather manipulation. The patents that HAARP is clearly founded on expressly state how this technology could be used to move the jet stream and do other mischief to the environment. After my book came out Dr. Begich came up with a follow-up book focusing on mind control. Therefore I focused my research and follow-up book on weather control.

RNN: Our mutual friends Derek & Sharon Gilbert have interviewed you several times about your book HAARP: The Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy. In this book you use HAARP as a springboard to talk about globalist agendas such as the New World Order and Agenda 21. Tell us about this.

SMITH: "Angels Don't Play This HAARP" did an excellent job of covering the what, where, when, and how of HAARP; but they left out who and why (beyond a vague "it's the military"). I recognized that the military follows orders – its seemed to me that there had to be someone above the military pushing the program. My HAARP book was admittedly speculation on who might be secretly behind the project and why. In doing this I looked at all the Internet rumors and speculations on what HAARP might be able to do, and then asked, "Who would want to do that?"

Some researchers feared that HAARP might accidentally destroy the world. If so, perhaps Satanists would want to score points with The Big Guy Downstairs and use HAARP to conduct the ultimate in human sacrifice.

Mind control and weather control came up as the most plausible covert uses for HAARP. There are many Conspiracy Theories that link the use of one or the other (or both) of these technologies to conspiracies of rich and powerful Elites who want to take over the world, supplanting the world’s existing governments with one single government that would do their bidding. I focused on a few of the more plausible of these in HAARP: The Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy.

RNN: What groups of elitists do you see pushing for world government based on such issues as trade treaties, Agenda 21, the Kyoto Protocols?

SMITH: I don't believe that there is one Big Conspiracy running (ruining) our world. Rather, I think there are a lot of would-be rulers of the world, forming two major competing nexuses of aligned coalitions. I call these geopolitical centers of gravity "The Banksters" and "The Watermelons."

The Banksters are the old-line "New World Order." These are the 19th Century "Robber Baron" Industrialists who seek a global government based on international trade agreements. These agreements, like NAFTA and GATT, would put their multinational corporations above and beyond the reach of any single government. Their World Government would centralize the control of global resources keeping the means of production in the hands the Elite, and profits pouring into their pockets.

I call the "opposing team" the Watermelons because they are green on the outside and red on the inside. Collectivism is far from dead. The environmental movement has been penetrated and taken over by radical collectivists. These folks believe that Western Civilization is a bad idea – that our consumer lifestyle is unsustainable, that it’s not "earth friendly." They too want a central government that controls the world’s resources, but not for the profit of the few but to destroy the First World (returning us to a pre-Industrial Revolution condition) and give the wealth of the rich nations to the poor ones. The mantra is that the United States produces 20% of the world’s resources, but consumes 80%. This is seen as a crime against Humanity. They, as Humanity’s self-appointed guardians, feel compelled to stop us, since we seem incapable of being responsible for ourselves. Where the Banksters are working from the top down through international agreements; the Watermelons are working from the bottom up through local initiatives (whose foreign origins are carefully hidden), mass media (Hollywood propaganda), and the NGOs (Non-Governmental Organizations).

The Earth Summit in Rio in 1992 was an official meeting of the United Nations. "Agenda 21," the resolution signed at the end by representatives from 172 nations, is a Binding Resolution. Now that the US is signatory to it (Al Gore signing it for the Clinton Administration on his first day of office), it is now the Law and of Land and stands above the US Constitution (per the Constitutional provision on Treaties). As the Agenda For The 21st Century it calls for a massive redesign of our society, and is well on its way to implementation, in the US, at the UN and around the world. It has created a vast and growing bureaucracy within the UN to shift the world to "Sustainable Development" – which in practice is no development. It called for the creation of an Earth Charter, which has since been drafted and launched – with more than 5,000 NGOs having pledged their support. The Kyoto Protocols came from the UN bureaucracy set up under Agenda 21.

I believe the primary reason we don't have a full-on working global government right now is because every time one team nails a piece of it down, like the Kyoto Protocols, the other team pries it back up because it doesn't put them in charge (the Neo-Con controlled Bush Administration rejected the Kyoto Protocols).

RNN: Is this a key factor in the global warming/climate change debate?

SMITH: Certainly bad weather and rising temps play into the hands of those who would save us from an impending global warming disaster – if Man is responsible for climate change than only a global government, with police powers, can force the changes necessary to deal with the problem. If accepted as true by the general public, the theory that global warming is caused by greenhouse gases would give the Watermelons a very big leg up on the Banksters – whether it were true or not!

HAARP and a myriad of other environmentally meddlesome technologies may be skewing this debate in other ways. It is possible that some of the nasty weather predicted by climate change models is actually being created (intentionally or unintentionally).

RNN: Are some of these same people behind the push to manipulate the weather, or is this mainly for military purposes?

SMITH: There are a great number of players in the environmental modification game, with many different motivations – economic, political, and military.

There are, for example, commercial civilian organizations involved, both in developing the technology and it using it. Among the many private research and development (R & D) firms is Atmospheric and Environmental Research (AER) of Lexington, Massachusetts. Dr. Ross N. Hoffman is a principal scientist and Vice President For Research And Development there. His article "Controlling Hurricanes — Can Hurricanes And Other Severe Tropical Storms Be Moderated Or Deflected?" appeared in the October 2004 issue of Scientific American. In it he revealed that his team at AER, using computer modeling, had figured out how to steer hurricanes!

On the operations side there are firms like Weather Modification, Inc. of Fargo, North Dakota, who engage in what is called Weather Management, which consists primarily of cloud-seeding to increase precipitation and hail abatement. Farmers across America use this technology to save their crops and ski resorts use it to extend their weeks of operations. In China, where the line between civilian and military is blurred, a government agency runs an veritable army of 37,000 Weather Managers – which is how they can promise perfect weather for the up-coming Summer Olympics.

There are many other private, semi-private and publicly owned academic and governmental scientific organizations involved as well. Many colleges and universities have R & D and/or operational programs. The Desert Research Institute, a part of the University of Nevada System, conducts ongoing cloud-seeding over the Sierra Nevada Mountains in California and Nevada to increase snow packs to augment drinking water supplies for those two states. The University of Alaska, Anchorage, runs HAARP, which is ostensibly a civilian program.

In the US, the federal government has out-sourced environmental modification technology development and use to civilian contractors since it signed the UN sponsored treaty "The Convention on the Prohibition of Military or Any other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques" in 1978. Officially the US military has no interest in "controlling the weather" but has spent millions of dollars in "modifying the atmosphere" such as through HAARP. This dodge is in response to Uncle Sam’s getting caught with his fingers in the cookie jar in Vietnam with Project Popeye.

RNN: What was Project Popeye?

SMITH: Project Popeye is a now exposed and proven conspiracy on the part of the US military to circumvent the laws of humanity in time of war using environmental modification as a weapon — and to keep this secret the Secretary of Defense was forced to lie to Congress.

Project Popeye was originally conducted as a pilot program in 1966. It was an attempt to extend the monsoon season in Southeast Asia with the goal of slowing traffic on the Ho Chi Minh Trail by seeding clouds above it in hopes of producing impassable mud. Over the course of the program silver iodide was dispersed from C-130s, F4 Phantoms (a fighter jet) and the Douglas A-1E Skyraider (a single engine propeller driven fighter-bomber), into clouds over portions of the trail winding from North Vietnam through Laos and Cambodia into South Vietnam. Positive results from the initial test led to continued operations from 1967 through 1972.

Project Popeye reached broad public consciousness when syndicated columnist Jack Anderson revealed it under the code name Intermediary-Compatriot in his Washington Post column of 18 March 1971. US Defense Secretary Melvin Laird was forced to testify before Congress about it in 1972. He told the US Senate that Anderson's wild tales were untrue and that the United States never tried to seed clouds in Southeast Asia. But on 28 January 1974 a private letter from Laird was leaked to the press. By 1974 he had left Defense and was counsel to President Nixon who was fighting for his political life following the break-in at the Democratic Party's National Committee offices in the Watergate Hotel on 17 June 1972. In the letter he privately admitted that his 1972 testimony had been false and that the US did in fact use weather modification in North Vietnam in 1967-68.

On 20 March 1974 the United States Senate held a top secret hearing in which representatives of the military finally admitted to the existence of Operation Popeye. They conceded that the cloud seeding program had been conducted over neutral Cambodia and Laos (in violation of international law), as well as both North and South Vietnam. The testifying Pentagon officials stated that Popeye had been ongoing from 1966 through 1972 and that at least 2,600 flights had released over 47,000 units of cloud-seeding materials during the program, at a total cost for the operation of around $21.6 million.

These hearings also revealed that the US military had attempted other environmental modifications as well. The US had used massive spraying of chemical herbicides (agent orange, agent white and others) in the hopes of depriving its foes of both food supplies and shelter. As analyst L. Juda put it in an article in the magazine International Organization, the idea was simple: "If, as has been suggested, then the guerrilla is to his base area as fish are to the sea, the destruction of the sea would kill the fish and the elimination of the base area with its supports would destroy the guerrilla."

The implications of these revelations staggered Senator Claiborne Pell, a Democrat from Rhode Island. He led the movement to create an international treaty banning the use of environmental modification as a weapon. As I mentioned, the US became signatory to "The Convention on the Prohibition of Military or Any other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques" in 1978. Prior to signing it the US federal government was spending between $40M and $140M per year on developing this technology and had over 700 degreed scientists working on it. After 1978 the federal budget went to zero and the jobs disappeared. Uncle Sam didn't loose interest in this technology, he just learned discretion. From that day to this he has kept his part in it off budget and beyond the reach of Congress by passing it to Civilian Contractors. For instance, one of the senior scientists from Weather Modification, Inc. went on Art Bell's Coast to Coast AM radio show in 2005 and outted himself as having been one of the scientists on Operation Popeye.

RNN: Is tinkering with the weather dangerous? If so, how?

SMITH: Very much so. Tinkering with atmospheric processes involves open air testing. It doesn't happen in a lab. It takes place in the air over our heads. If something goes wrong it happens in real time to real people. A classic example of this was Project Cirrus which was a joint operation conducted by the U.S. Navy and a group of scientists from General Electric (GE), led by Dr. Irving Langmuir.

Project Cirrus took place on the 13th of October in 1947 when a U.S. Navy plane, under the direction of the scientists from GE, flew into a hurricane and dropped 80 kg (176 lbs) of dry ice into it. At the time the hurricane was in the Atlantic Ocean, safely off the eastern coast of the U.S. After being seeded with dry ice the hurricane abruptly changed direction and came on shore near Savanna, Georgia, where it did extensive damage to property leaving 1400 people homeless and causing two fatalities. In what has since become almost standard procedure, the U.S. military classified the data from the seeding of this hurricane to frustrate litigation.

Dr. Langmuir believed that there was a 99% probability that the hurricane's change of direction was entirely due to the cloud seeding! Langmuir's opinion about the effectiveness of cloud seeding, however, was never mentioned in any of his writings in scientific journals. The attorneys for General Electric, seeking to avoid litigation from victims of the hurricane, reviewed and censored Langmuir's scientific publications and ordered Dr. Langmuir never to make any public admission that cloud seeding caused the hurricane to change direction.

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