A Discussion With Mr. John Carpenter

Editors note: This is part of a special series of Raiders News Network interviews focusing on the 61st Anniversary of the 1947 Roswell, New Mexico UFO Incident. RNN is joined by Mr. John Carpenter, Bachelors of Arts degree in Psychology from DePauw University, Greencastle, Indiana, and Masters degree in Social Work from Washington University, St. Louis, Missouri, as well as Advanced Training in Clinical Hypnosis in order to practice his profession as a psychiatric therapist & hypnotherapist in Branson, Missouri. His life-long curiosity in UFOs led to his volunteering his services to over 120 cases of possible UFO abduction. He has presented his research findings on such programs as Sightings, Encounters, Montel Williams, Strange Universe, as well as being interviewed by OMNI Magazine, USA Today, Time, Women's World and many others. He presented six professional papers at the prestigious M.I.T. conference in 1991. He served as MUFON’s Director of Abduction Research from 1991 to 2000. He has produced eight research DVDs loaded with data and interesting interviews.


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RNN: Mr. Carpenter, thank you for doing this interview. Please tell us, how did you get into researching UFO abductions?

CARPENTER: I had always had an interest ever since I was a little boy in this subject because I saw that a number of adults were treating it seriously, and I found that fascinating – that other beings might really be visiting this planet. Years later, when Budd Hopkins and a few others started using professional hypnotherapists to uncover periods of "missing time" in UFO encounters, I realized that I was one of those professionals who had been trained in psychiatry and hypnosis! I wrote Budd Hopkins and MUFON to volunteer my services – never knowing if I would ever actually get to be of service. Wow – they needed many professionals immediately to help; Budd Hopkins called me, discussed techniques, and referred me my first case in 1989.

RNN: Isn't hypnosis suggestive and unreliable for determining truth?

CARPENTER: Yes, hypnosis can be suggestive if one asks leading and suggestive questions. Instead of trying to be perfectly non-suggestive, I deliberately ask very leading, suggestive, but logical questions to see if the witness can be led. Despite these clever approaches, all witness remained firm in what they experienced – even if it was illogical, weird, or completely out of their usual experiences. For example, I asked every witness what he was able to observe in any of the corners of the room that he now found himself in (aboard some kind of craft). After a moment of silence and apparent puzzlement, the witness would reply, "Well, I’m sorry – there doesn’t appear to be any corners. This looks like a round room…and I don’t see anything…" Almost all Earthly rooms have corners – so this was very logical. Yet, I knew that research was frequently finding "round rooms" on board. Despite my logical question and direct suggestion to see something, the witness went against logic and my suggestions. Another example: I ask, "When the being opens its mouth, what pitch of voice do you hear – high, medium, or low?" Despite these leading suggestions, witnesses always replied, "Well, the mouth doesn’t even open – it’s just a slit. It’s like I’m hearing their thoughts in my head – and there’s no tone or pitch to it…" Because of their strong emotions, every witness would not deviate from their recall. In fact, they would argue against my push to give logical, expected answers and remain true to their experiences. Research done on non-emotional data (rote learning) showed poor memory recall. But studies done on trauma/deadly crimes/etc revealed a 90% accuracy when emotional details were able to be recalled.

RNN: We also are interviewing Yvonne Smith in this series. Have you looked at any of her similar findings?

CARPENTER: Yvonne and I are old buddies going back to our involvement in the M.I.T. Abduction Conference in 1991 in Boston. We have communicated regularly and crossed paths many times. We find exactly the same kinds of data and same types of emotional experiences and therapeutic needs in our witnesses.

RNN: How do you know this is not fantasy or simply people telling you what they think you want to hear?

CARPENTER: People don’t really know what I want to hear because I am open-minded and not siding with any particular theory. As I stated, I have tried to lead them with very suggestive questioning and tricky interrogation, and they stick to THEIR story – not anything of mine. If this were fantasy we would not have very many matching details. Fantasy and creativity are too vast and varied. Even if they were duplicating a sci-fi show or movie in some fashion, it would become obvious to all of us as researchers. Instead, they consistently describe a new and much stranger version of alien contact that we have not heard described before with any consistency. How thousands of witnesses worldwide describe the same types of beings down to the tiniest of details just amazes me. It does not matter what their intelligence, belief system, religion, or economic status is. People in their own way, in their own language, in their own perceptions are describing the same intruders.

RNN: How many witnesses have had psychological disorders?

CARPENTER: None of my cases had any psychological issues or dysfunctional personalities that would serve as a source for these reports. Their emotions reflected the symptoms and characteristics of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder – a disruption in their everyday lives by some kind of extraordinary external event (war, tornado, house fire, UFO encounter!) Their psychological reactions were consistent with those of "normal" people suddenly having unusual and upsetting experiences. PTSD symptoms do not derive from internal psychosis or delusions.

RNN: Is there any pattern to the type of witness in terms of race, blood type, intelligence, ethnic origin, or personality?

CARPENTER: None, whatsoever --- and we always keep looking for such a pattern. What we do find is that when somebody becomes involved in a UFO abduction experience, we usually find that one or more of their children or older relatives is/has been involved as well. It is like the alien beings are tracking a particular genetic line – seemingly picked at random, but then followed for generations thereafter. I’ve had several cases spanning four generations in the same family line.

RNN: How does collecting the data help you determine what's going on?

CARPENTER: Data, as it accumulates over many cases, may or may not develop patterns. We are not always happy with what strong patterns may develop in some areas. But it is generally accepted that strong correlations arise in the data across many countries on this planet. This includes from how the crafts appear and operate to how the creatures appear and conduct themselves in having contact with us. I have tracked as many as 500 different variables in my cases alone. I have found a higher degree of consistency and repetition than I even thought was going on. Fantasy, delusions, personal issues, and hoaxes could never agree with this kind of consistency or high correlation.

RNN: What data patterns are you finding?

CARPENTER: Everything from appearances, behavior, and methods of operation to tools, weird science, craft details, written symbols, and probable agendas. Hybrids appear to be developing more involvement with us on Earth.

RNN: How does having multiple witnesses become more significant?

CARPENTER: When two or more participants are experiencing simultaneous amnesia or "missing time" in relation to a UFO sighting, this presents a unique research opportunity to work with each individual separately and elicit details carefully. Again, despite tricky questioning, multiple participants have shown to describe highly correlating perceptions of their experiences – which are never perfectly alike due to individual differences in perception, perspective, and memory. Yet, in one of my cases, two ladies with no interest in UFOs or science fiction recalled a wealth of details that not only matched each other in 43 specific ways but also with many unpublished cases from around the world !

RNN: Have any outsiders witnessed these abductions when they happen?

CARPENTER: Yes, a number of occasions have been documented where related and unrelated witnesses have observed various elements of an abduction – from being taken, floating in the air, to being returned. Budd Hopkins describes a wonderful case of this in his book, WITNESSED, about the Brooklyn Bridge abduction case. As many as seven independent witnesses observed a woman in a white nightgown being floated out of her 12th story bedroom window by three small beings and up into a hovering glowing disk. The witnesses were shaken and emotionally upset by this observation to say the least. I’ve had a number of similar cases as well.

RNN: Yes, we are familiar with this case. What physical evidence exists for such abductions?

CARPENTER: Heavy imprints and other ground traces from landed crafts. Unusual marks, scars, incisions, bruising, and retrieved implanted objects (Dr. Roger Leir’s research). Being returned with someone else’s clothes or belongings. Being put back in the wrong beds, wrong rooms, wrong houses, or outside locked doors at night. Babies that appear only half-human.

RNN: On physical evidence, many of the best researchers have noted the collection of tissue or DNA samples from human and animals in so-called UFO flap areas. Vallee refers to this as 'vital energy' and he and others believe there could be something similar happening here as to the ancient stories of gods who came down and blended their DNA with humans and produced demigods. Besides the mythos, do you think these ancient records may describe the same phenomenon as what we would call modern abductions, or is this something different?

CARPENTER: I published a paper reviewing about 180 stories, accounts, legends, etc. from many countries worldwide over many centuries. Basically, they all described strange lights, objects, and landings of crafts along with unusual little people who sometimes kidnapped us for awhile. I believe it is essentially the same phenomena by a different name and now from a modern perspective that is occurring again presently. What they called fairies, pixies, or elves in the past, we are probably calling aliens!

RNN: Where do these beings come from?

CARPENTER: They never really tell us – which is another high correlation among hundreds of witnesses. That is directly opposite of someone who is delusional or fantasy-prone and literally brags about knowing where they come from. I believe that they travel from other worlds in a dimension right next to ours. This is not a weird idea any longer. One of the most recent Scientific American magazines states that parallel universes and hovering invisible dimensions are highly likely and probable – just hard to see and prove.

RNN: What does the data suggest that these beings are doing here?

CARPENTER: Research data occasionally shows that they have an interest in the quality of our soil, plants, water, and living tissues. UFO landings often include the sightings of beings collecting different things from our environment. Some researchers claim that the mucous membranes of animals and humans are a good source for analyzing pollution levels in the air, our diet, and our environment. It is interesting to note that the bizarre, laser-like precision cuts in cattle mutilations often involve the removal of eyes, ears, tongues, mouth tissues, rectum, and sexual organ tissues – all of which have some degree of exposure to pollutants and may collect traces in the mucous membrane regions. As they have watched us butcher and carve up cows, they may have easily concluded that this mutilating process is an acceptable practice with cows. Skin, hair, and rectal tissue samples have been often documented from human exams during alleged abduction encounters. It does not make sense that they still need to know what human skin or hair looks like after all these years – unless they are monitoring something that these samples might show. Abduction experiences sometimes include lectures, warnings, or holographic presentations about taking better care of our planet. Therefore, once the nuclear age began and pollution of our air and environment became issues, UFO encounters and abductions seem to have increased significantly. Research data clearly shows a strong, consistent pattern of interaction with humans to collect sperm and ova, produce some kind of hybrid children, and study our emotions and relations. Collecting the sexual seeds may occur in a few different patterns: (1) actual extraction with medical equipment, (2) sexual imagery to stimulate and make the abductee think that he or she is having sexual relations, (3) actual sexual relations with an alien utilizing a "screen image" or deception that will be more acceptable and stimulating for the subject, (4) stimulating human beings (often not knowing each other) to crave each other intensely, have sex, and then steal the sperm and egg from them afterwards. The latest generation of data – according to Budd Hopkins and David Jacobs – suggests that adult hybrids (who appear more human than alien) are setting up "fake job interviews" on Earth in order to lure humans and mentally control them for sexual purposes.

RNN: Following Vatican chief astronomer Father Jose Gabriel Funes interview saying it's okay for Catholics to believe in Aliens, Tom Horn wrote an article called "Is the Vatican easing humanity toward alien disclosure?" In it he pointed out how Funes was just the latest in a string of Vatican authorities including Guy Consolmagno, Monsignor Corrado Balducci, the now deceased Father Malachi Martin and others who in recent history provided carefully crafted language that almost seems to be designed to help church faithful face the possibility of ET contact. Consolmagno went so far as to the say the chances of finding ET are now better than not. Do you think the Vatican has ET evidence of some kind?

CARPENTER: Not really. I think they just have many people wrestling with these questions and being more open about asking for answers these days. RNN: In the several interviews we have done with Jesse Marcel Jr. on radio and news print, we asked him a question that often comes up about UFOs and religion and which I'm certain you have faced in your therapy sessions. Jesse is a devout Catholic and like some of the high profile church astronomers that have been in the news recently talking about the possibility of intelligent alien life, he agrees that contact with extraterrestrials or some other proof of their existence is not in conflict with church's teachings. What thoughts have you given to this question concerning the spiritual or psychological ramifications of what UFOs, abductions, Roswell may represent with regard to people's religious ideas?

CARPENTER: Some people have become more religious as a result of their experiences. I think it gives one the chance to re-evaluate what one believes. People have had trouble sorting this kind of weird experience out without religion even being an issue.

RNN: What do you make of the latest Indiana Jones film and its ties to Roswell?

CARPENTER: Have not seen that movie yet…

RNN: If the government has crashed saucers and dead bodies, why don't they just admit it finally to the general public?

CARPENTER: The problem is that they could NOT tell the public that they can stop this intrusion. Not only can the government NOT stop or control these intrusions, they cannot explain them well. Imagine the President saying that alien crafts are entering our atmosphere and abducting us and our children for their purposes, but that we can do nothing about it and should just accept it…!! If we can ever get control over it, then they will proudly admit so.

RNN: Why hasn't science taken this subject more seriously?

CARPENTER: Science has been taking a serious look at UFO data as well as many other paranormal events – but very secretly. The National Institute for Discovery Science enlisted the help of many top scientists ( including two Apollo astronauts who walked on the moon ) and quietly studied, debated, and reviewed much bizarre information. Mainstream science is always rather arrogant and critical of people thinking "out of the box." So they do so in secrecy… Read "HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER" as evidence of a serious scientific effort to face the paranormal and document it carefully.

RNN: If so much activity is going on, why doesn't the media report it?

CARPENTER: My media contacts all tell me that UFO stories generate the most interest and highest ratings when they do a story, but that the higher bosses are fearful of doing too much on the subject for fear of being criticized, ridiculed, laughed at, or labeled. Perhaps someone even higher up is controlling how much is allowed to be aired?

RNN: Thanks for doing this interview, John. Please tell people where they can learn more about your research.

CARPENTER: You can write to me at P.O. Box 14517, Springfield, MO 65814. You can e-mail me at: carpenter2655@aol.com. I do have eight lengthy research DVDs for sale on much of my work: "The Face in the Window," "Aliens Captured in Brazil?" Seminar for Researchers & Hypnotherapists, "Multiple Participant Abductions," "Encounters in Australia," "Centuries of Contact," "The Light at the End of the Road," and "Blinded by the Light (abduction caught on camera)."

Thomas Horn is the CEO of
RaidersNewsNetwork.com and SurvivorMall.com .

Over the last decade, he has authored three books, wrote dozens of published editorials, and had several feature magazine articles. His works have been referred to by writers of the LA Times Syndicate, MSNBC, Christianity Today, Coast to Coast, World Net Daily, White House Correspondents and dozens of newsmagazines and press agencies around the globe. Tom's latest book is "The Ahriman Gate," which fictionalizes the use of biotechnology to resurrect Biblical Nephilim.

Thomas is also a well known radio personality who has guest-hosted and appeared on dozens of radio and television shows over the last 30 years, including "The 700 Club" and "Coast to Coast AM."

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